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黃景強:Thank you chairman. I think Professor Kwok has a point but I think academic freedom, I think here is the Council meeting on this particular issue is not the main point of concern because we are talking about is the recruitment of human resources matter. Whether or not we are appointing a person does not relate to academic freedom. I think we all respect academic freedom very well and as our President said in the opening and remarks, right now we are really in a dilemma: approve it, disapprove it or delay it, every single option will have a down side. I think we have to make a choice.
After reading the papers, which is the first time I have ever heard of this paper then I officially looked at the name of the candidate, although I have heard about the name in the press for a long time. I do feel that we have to be very cautious in this appointment because, as some of our colleagues mentioned earlier, we have to really unite, I am talking about HKU only, not Hong Kong. We have to unite, trying to develop a strategy under the instruction of president to really foster and assure academic freedom, academic excellence and also smooth human relation. I think we have been divided too much. We really need somebody to hold us together. Our chairman, our president and all our senior management team.
So, on balance, without referring to any particular issues, I really see controversy surrounding the candidate. So may be it is more cautious step to appoint a person in this post as soon as possible but I will not support the nomination at this point.



廖長江:I have made some enquires amongst the senior academics open in this University and other Universities, it is more or less the same thing. I dare to look into the publications in the past 5 years myself, and also nothing as detailed and as comprehensive as Edward's research. Perhaps just to supplement on what Edward said, I have looked into the past 5 years, and I was looking for citation of academic work from the candidate, and there was none, except there was googled 4 times, googled…research…I mean it was google researched…it was google searched 4 times, and there was no citation. Thank you.


盧寵茂:My position in the Council is somewhat similar to KY. We are both academic staff elected by staff members. I fully understand that we are here as our personal capacity. I am not representing the staff but I do have the perspective from the staff members. So in terms of the academic qualifications, for example, I can make some comments and in terms of how I see him as a potential candidate for PVC staffing, remember this is related to academic staffing and resources. So that's why I do feel that I can give my opinion and thoughts about the appointment. Firstly it is on academic achievement. Secondly, as a staff, whether I see him as a suitable person to take care of staffing and resources because there have very important implications for us, for the staff.
I am a new member of the Council and I was elected in May, so I have been in the Council this is the forth one. When I decided to accept the nomination, I really don't have this item on my agenda, maybe I am a bit regret now. As if you look at the attack against Johannes Chan, I would say that my suffer in the last couple of months is a result in the participation in this Council, is perhaps even more than what he has suffered. He has the right to complain about, I don't know what I should do. I was fulfilling my duty as a University staff elected representative to take part in this Council meeting, and every time I remind myself this is my duty to do it for the best interest of the University.
But when I fell, all these people...I am not saying only the students, I know there are people outside the University, there is no doubt that the student lead the crowd in when I have this meeting. I was accused in so many media, so many articles, pictures to say that I am an actor, 插水, alright. I really feel very bad, I didn't complain eventually and even when I was in the hospital, and I talked to the media with my occupation in charge that I will kindly accept, 我唔追究啲學生. That's my true belief because I feel very sad if those people in the room and outside were our students, I really feel ashamed. We have not done our duty well.
I always remind myself that what I read in the newspaper cannot be taken as the truth and I always say and tell other people that I don't know the candidate until I saw it on the table in this meeting. I was asked, before this meeting, in the last honorary fellowship conference. All these media came to me asking, would you accept this Johannes Chan be received as the next PVC and I said come on, how can you ask me to make a conclusion before I actually conducted a study as an academic, we should not make conclusion before we looked at the facts. The facts are here and the facts are also from all the discussions we had. I really appreciated all the members and I truly believe everyone here is an independent trustee of the University, hoping for the best interest of the University. I appreciate all the thoughts and I am now saying what I think base on all these facts, what is my opinion.
Now, first of all I have to declare my conflict of interest, I know Johannes Chan. He was in the same hostel with me in St. Johns College so we lived next to another floor. We know each other and in some of the previous University activities he has expressed support for me and for my department. So I really appreciate his support for me. In fact when I heard about his nomination in the media, that he is the candidate...And in the personal point of view that he is a good guy as many of the members have said. He is a good man. He has been working for the University for so long. This is the first impression for me that I should support him. But after looking at this and especially after the incident in July, I have some reservation. It is about his qualification. Professor Chen has a very detailed analysis on the publication. You can look at it, for the last 15 years, he has produced less than 5 items output including factor and article, less than 5 a year and in some years for example, in 2008, he has produced only 1 item, 2011, 1 item only.
I know the number, quantity, is not the absolute measure, you have to see the quality as well. If I have an assistant professor with this kind of output, I will be very concerned, I would really say, hey, how can you reach the bar of the notion within the University, very strict criteria 4 + 4 for practical, 3 + 3 for non-practical, for promotion either up or out from an assistant professor to an associate professor. If my assistant professor give me a CV of 1 output per year, I would say, you are in trouble. In 6 years or in 8 years time, how many publications did you have in your CV? You can't reach that bar.
(我明白產量並非絕對標準,也視乎質素。若然我屬下的助理教授只有這樣的產量,我會非常憂慮。我會說,你怎能符合港大4 + 4和3 + 3晉升為副教授的嚴謹要求?若果我的助理教授的履歷只有每年1篇文獻,我會說,你惹麻煩了,在6至8年內你會有多少篇文獻?你並不符合標準。)



盧寵茂:I agree with KY that the University, the USPC, he is not a case to promotion and I doubt whether the same applies to the Law faculty. I believe it should, you still have the same sort of criteria. Professor Chen is actually the best person here as an academic. So I would like to start a question whether he has the academic qualifications to take up this position especially he will be looking at staffing, looking at promotion and if you are not a PhD yourself how can you supervise people. The same as if you are not academically of certain standing. How can you say, hey, you are not well presented. The candidate would really say, look at your CV, your CV is not as good as mine. How can you turn down an application, if you don't have the kind of quality? So this is my feeling when I saw this CV and reminded me of quality and whether he is qualified as a PVC. Perhaps the VC may not be aware of this but certainly I think after this point was mentioned, I hope as the Search Committee chairman, you would consider whether, you know, you said just now you were not aware of this and you take it for granted since he has been promoted to a professor and since he is appointed as a dean, he must qualify. I don't feel that assumption is correct.
(我贊成袁國勇所指,對大學或USPC(University Selection Promotion Committee,大學遴選及晉升委員會)而言,他並非晉升材料,我也懷疑這要求是否適用於法律學院。我相信始終要有相類要求,而陳(坤耀)教授是這裏最優秀的學者。故此我提出質疑,究竟申請人有否學術資格勝任此職以處理人事及晉升?如果你並非博士,如何擔任監督的工作?若你的學術成就不足,怎去否定別人的履歷?對方會反駁指你的資歷並不及我。這是我對申請人履歷的觀感,提醒我究竟他是否勝任副校。也許(馬斐森)校長並沒留意這點,但我希望提出這項質疑之後,物色委員會主席(即校長)會加以考慮。你剛才表示,你並沒留意這點並覺得這是理所當然,因他是教授和院長,所以一定夠資格。這個假設並不正確。)
馬斐森:There were 4 academic members on the Search Committee. I was qualified to make academic judgments, I have a lot of experience of making these judgments. There were 3 other academic members of the committee, so there were 4 people, 3 of them are not here to represent their views, so my job as a chairman is to represent their views. Academic credentials were considered, and were considered suitable. Council members may disagree. But I am not going to go back from the judgment made by the Search Committee. (物色委員會有4名學者(包括馬斐森)。我有資格作學術判斷,而且經驗豐富。另外3人現不在席,我作為委員會主席有責任代為表達。我們曾經考慮申請人的學術資歷,認為合適。可能有校委不同意,但我不會重新審視物色委員會的決定。)
As to a comment to the number of papers he published, I think it's utterly irrelevant. There's no job description that says you could have published certain number of papers or you're not qualified for this role. The absolute number of papers published are not...quality and you can't transfer from medicine into law because the publication requirements are different. So frankly the number of paper he published in the last 15 years I think is irrelevant.
盧寵茂:Well that's the qualification part...my feeling about reading his CV...the second part is related to whether he's suitable for this position, because he's going to take care of academic staffing. And my expectation for such person has to be very impartial. I wouldn't have problem with political approval, alright? You apply to your political meeting or whatever. I do have many staffs who take part in Occupy Central. They are so yellow, and I've expressed my position and my opinion that I did not support Occupy Central. I don't have a problem in the hospital, because they work in hospital, political opinion does not affected their clinical service and never change their duty just because they support Occupy Central. That should not affect your work within the University and the hospital.
But on that event, on that night we have been in the storm of Council meeting and subsequently my injury. And after the event, I didn't really see him showing any sympathy for the Council members, and in particular, I use myself as an example. I am a staff elected by all the other staff to take part. And I sustained and injured. From all the opinion that he has expressed, actually he's still putting the blame on the Council, he has never...I'm not saying I need his sympathy. But as a staff, I really feel if you are PVC (staffing) and if a staff member had an injury during an event like this, should you just keep on saying it's the Council's fault, that means it's my fault as well? So in a way he's telling the public, he's speaking out in public, including his《香港家書》, that the fault remains in the Council...the suffering I encountered. That is my reserve.
As I said before, I came to this meeting when I know he's a potential candidate. I am very supportive initially. For this and now looking his CV and what happened, his way of handling it...it certainly rings a bell for me that I really need to think twice before considering him as a suitable person for this position. And I wonder, I know the recommendation by the Search Committee was actually made a while ago...was written in July. With that kind of incidents and the way that this candidate has expressed his opinion in public, would the Search Committee still consider that kind of person is suitable to handle academic staffing and resources? Because as a staff, I am seriously concerned, even though I know I am here not representing the staff.
梁智鴻: The recommendation of Search Committee was made in July (...) sorry in May. So anything after that was not included.
盧寵茂:That is a case. Can I ask the chairman of the Search Committee, would you take into account of what happened afterwards, that this candidate has done this?(VC:Done what?)Openly breached the confidentiality calling himself a candidate, and then was complaining that the Council is not doing the right thing. And despite the fact that there are Council members including the staff member who suffered injury during that event, he has expressed no concern whatsoever with the safety of the Council and staff members.
And in contrast, he put the blame into the Council members and including me as a staff member. I am really terrified that someone with this kind of... I don't want to extrapolate but I felt if someone... I would say he's putting his political inclination into the University. Because of the difference in political opinions, he may think that I am here to represent CY. I can tell you I am not a 梁粉. I came in with support of the staff members, I've never talked to CY. CY has never talked to me about this, but it seems that everybody there including Johannes Chan has labeled me as a 梁粉...and whatever I did, whatever I suffered, I deserved it.
馬斐森:So my comment on that is I think you've taken things very personally, and I think we should keep things to factual discussion, and the purpose of the candidate. There's no requirement in the job description for the candidate to express sympathy otherwise for anybody who is injured. I think you are putting post-event facts into this particular context, so the… I can't speak for the Search Committee, Search Committee hasn't met since 27 May, I can only speak as a Council Member, the events that happened since the Search Committee's paper was written on 27 May, there have been many things written and said, a lot of opinions, I prefer to stick to the facts. And the facts that the Committee has to consider were the qualification and suitability for the post. I've already said at the start of the meeting that it's my view that whilst none of the outcomes are attractive, to my mind, there will be less damage done for the University by the acceptance of the nomination and become a......projection.


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